Inbetweener
Posted:
Apr 12, 2005, 7:18 PM
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Black Cauldron and Song of South
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Until fairly recently the two Disney animated feature-length films not yet released on DVD were the underrated Black Cauldron, and the un-PC Song of the South. I always thought that BC was unfairly underrated. Most critics panned it, and apparently so did most of the audience, which surpirsed me becasue I remmebered kids squealing with excitement in the theater back when it was released. One critic even said it was "inconceivable" that anyone would actaully want to own it in Entertainment weekly. In a move I now very much regret, I sent a letter of disagreement to the magazine(a polite letter, just a stupid one, as I didn't realize that MOuse Detective cost much less than Cauldorn did). I'd say that the recent Treasure Planet is underratted in the same way.
As for Song of the South, it remains the only feature left. The folks in charge of Disney are just too Politically Correct to release it, and it shows since a lot of what the studio does produce noways seems to contain PC messages, and entertainment is secondary. Does ayone else think Song of the South SHOULD be released?
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Jpeg Master
Posted:
Apr 13, 2005, 9:20 PM
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Everything should be released in my opinion.
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BmodeMusic.com
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Research Guru
Posted:
Apr 13, 2005, 9:37 PM
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The Mouse House had bad luck with The Black Cauldron, its first PG-rated feature and a very daring project for its time. It was Disney's first Disney animated feature to use computer technology, and the first in which the characters didn't sing.
It cost $44 million to make (not so much now, but a helluva lot in 1985, setting a record for a cartoon). Tim Burton had an early (and uncredited) turn as a conceptual artist.
Nice try, but Disney fans weren't ready for a feature with dark, morbid characterizations. It grossed only $21 million in the U.S. -- you figure out the math.
I can understand why the Disney folks would be nervous about a DVD release, fearing that accompanying publicity about the unsuccessful theatrical run would contribute to a second failure for this film. Maybe some "radical" marketing to SF/fantasy fans would do the trick.
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"Oh boy." -- Allan Sherman
(This post was edited by eminovitz on Apr 13, 2005, 9:38 PM)
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Key Animator
Posted:
Apr 14, 2005, 4:17 AM
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Everything should be released in my opinion.
I think your right about that!
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Research Guru
Posted:
Apr 14, 2005, 1:46 PM
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One other problem about The Black Cauldron is that additional dialogue was written -- and voiced -- by one Roy Edward Disney.
This was Roy's only work as a writer for an animated film, or as an actor in any picture.
His name appeared in the credits. Mikey Eisner might not want to be reminded of that!
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"Oh boy." -- Allan Sherman
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Supervising Animator / Contributor
Posted:
Apr 14, 2005, 5:34 PM
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Of course they should be released - there is no point at all in people just sitting on stuff. Despite its cosy acceptance of slavery - which it is right to examine and find fault with - Song of the South is a good film, and deserves exposure.
Black Cauldron is a terrible film - ill-concieved - poorly animated - atrociously directed - very much a wasted opportunity - BUT it was a brave attempt to lift the Disney film out of the quagmire it had sunk into after Disney's death, by a young and inexperienced crew. It's part of Disney history and should be available. (Robin Hood and Oliver & Company are hardly the greatest pictures to come out of the Disney studio!)
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Back by popular demand -
"La-la-La-la.. I can't hear you!"
(This post was edited by peterhale on Apr 14, 2005, 5:35 PM)
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Key Animator
Posted:
Apr 14, 2005, 5:35 PM
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Hey I loved Robin Hood!
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Animator
Posted:
Apr 14, 2005, 5:40 PM
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well maybe they just neeed to wait until September when Eisner is replaced and try to get BC done then
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Directing Animator / Contributor
Posted:
Apr 14, 2005, 5:45 PM
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Although "The Great Mouse Detective" was a bit low at box-office, though underrated, it was highly successful. Siskel and Ebert even gave the film a good-ol'-fashioned "TWO THUMBS UP!" (According to the back of the 1992 VHS release)
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"Being a genius certainly has its advantages."
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Directing Animator
Posted:
Apr 14, 2005, 7:14 PM
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That film was originally titled Basil of Baker Street, but changed to The Great Mouse Detective because it supposedly tested well in surveys.
I never saw the entire film; only clips. Many people felt it was well done and perhaps would herald a return to classic Disney animation in the old vein.
I never saw Oliver and Company, and I don't think I would care to. I've read that Bette Midler's French Poodle character actually makes a lewd reference to the "M" word in the film; which IMHO is totally inappropriate for a Disney film. Also, I'm not a big fan of Billy Joel's music.
One thing I disliked about the later Disney films was the move away from finely-crafted music scores to a heavy reliance on pop tunes to lure younger audiences in. Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin are the exceptions. I didn't care much for the songs in The Little Mermaid except for "Under the Sea".
Anyway, back to the topic of this thread: The House of Mouse does plan to release SOTS in 2006; hopefully in a completely unexpurgated version. I think BC could do well on DVD, provided that it comes with lots of extra features, has an intelligently-designed ad campaign, and a reasonable price.
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"I'd like to cover you with furs and automobiles!"
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Inbetweener
Posted:
Apr 14, 2005, 9:43 PM
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I was about to post that though I disagree with BC being terrible, the fact that Disney realesed it but not SOTS, shows that they care more about politics than entertainment, since BC IS generally cosnidered an inferior project, and SOTS is not.
But you're saying that SOTS is schedulaed for release? I'd have to say it's about time. It will be interesting if controversy ensues.
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Directing Animator / Contributor
Posted:
Apr 15, 2005, 1:01 PM
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According to what I heard, like H-B, Disney has various "eras."
THE ORIGINAL CLASSICS (1937-1943)
Snow White
Pinocchio
Fantasia
Dumbo
Bambi
THE PACKAGE ERA (1943-1949) Here, Disney couldn't afford to make true features so he did little clip-show-type films.
Saludos Amigos
The Three Caballeros
Make Mine Music
Fun and Fancy Free
Melody Time
Ichabod and Mr. Toad
THE NEOCLASSICS (1950-1959)
Cinderella
Alice in Wonderland
Peter Pan
Lady and the Tramp
Sleeping Beauty
THE XEROX ERA (1961-1974) Here the quality goes down a bit.
101 Dalmatians (this is the best Xerox era film)
Sword in the Stone
The Jungle Book
The Aristocats
Robin Hood
THE DARK ERA (1977-1988)
The Rescuers
The Fox and the Hound
The Black Cauldron
The Great Mouse Detective (The best Dark Film era, my personal favorite Disney film)
Oliver and Company
THE RENAISSANCE ERA (1989-1994) This is modern Disney films resembling the magic of the classics.
The Little Mermaid
The Rescuers Down Under (The ONLY acceptable Disney sequel!)
Beauty and the Beast
Aladdin
The Lion King
THE TRUE DOWNWARD SPIRAL (1995-2002)
Pocahontas
The Hunchback of Notre Dame
Hercules
Mulan
Tarzan
Fantasia 2000
The Emperor's New Groove (has the good comedy of Aladdin)
Lilo and Stitch (started a stupid trend in my opinion)
THE WANING DAYS (2001-2004)
Atlantis
Treasure Planet
Brother Bear
Home On The Range
For Disney 2-d animation, it's ... fini.
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"Being a genius certainly has its advantages."
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Key Animator
Posted:
Apr 15, 2005, 2:40 PM
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I think my favorite period was THE NEOCLASSICS (1950-1959).
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Inbetweener
Posted:
Apr 15, 2005, 5:00 PM
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The Rescuers Down Under (The ONLY acceptable Disney sequel!)
Waht about Fantasia 2000?
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Key Animator
Posted:
Apr 15, 2005, 5:11 PM
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I didn't care for that one either!
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Directing Animator
Posted:
Apr 15, 2005, 7:45 PM
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The Rescuers Down Under (The ONLY acceptable Disney sequel!)
NAH, that one was to much of a "Save the Whales" type of thing - (I mean Save the Over sized Golden Eagles!) They could of came up with a better theme.
The Third sequel, plans to be a much better story line - But your going to have to wait until at least, 2007 or early 2008 to see it! 
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ToonRadio! Dog City-Editer:TV.Com! Big Cartoon DataBase!
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Supervising Animator / Contributor
Posted:
Apr 17, 2005, 4:19 AM
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Sorry JR - I'm not saying Robin Hood didn't have its moments but it was a very insipid picture by Disney standards.
King John and Sir Hiss were good characters and made a good double-act, but somehow their relationship never really contributed enough to propelling the narrative - it was too much of a side issue.
The Sheriff of Nottingham as a Western sheriff was a nice idea, but it didn't really enhance his role in the story.
Little John was a pale-imitation Baloo, and the rest of the characters were unimaginative stock types, with no personality to speak of, and no chance to show any if they had it.
(And don't talk to me about the embarrassingly anachronistic 'cute kids'...)
Compared to Disney's live-action Robin Hood - which told a tight, clear story in a simple, believable way - and Jungle Book (which established the switch to the 'lightweight' story style that had been heralded by Sword in the Stone) which was a great film because of the strength of the character relationships (ie: strong characters defined by their interactions = good filmmaking) -- compared to these the animated RH is the pits!
BUT... (shuffles feet and twists hem of shorts round finger) I've never actually seen Oliver & Company - so I might have been a bit unfair there!
See new thread "Best and Worst"!
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Back by popular demand -
"La-la-La-la.. I can't hear you!"
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Key Animator
Posted:
Apr 17, 2005, 4:26 AM
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I didn't care for oliver and Co. but then again I just crazy about classic disney!
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Animator
Posted:
Apr 18, 2005, 5:35 PM
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well some inside stories are saying that there is a plan for a revision of the animation studios in the near future so let us hope they do because CGI is just an eyesore waiting to happen in my book
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Member
Posted:
May 18, 2005, 1:43 PM
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I saw this on its opening theatrical release in the early 80's and absolutely loved it! The issues that have been brought up about it being un-PC are ridiculous! As a child, I saw nothing upsetting about the movie. The broken southern drawl of the characters was just another way people talk. This is no more racist than a New York or Chicago accent! What about the uneducated sounding southern drawl of the characters in the Hatfield and McCoy cartoons, or the slow idiotic sounding voice of the dodo bird in the earlier Warner Bros(?). cartoons? Not to mention Sylvester's sever lisp or Porky Pig's continual stutter! I could go on for pages about the other physical and emotional issues of cartoon characters. This is what makes us connect to them--they have human faults, frailties, and strengths. They make human mistakes and triumph over human issues! The main character (Uncle Remus) is african-american, the animal characters are neither (for God's sake they are ANIMALS after all), and the 'tar baby,' which seems to be the biggest issue is only a tar baby! I think too many people tend to attempt to make connections where NONE exist! The only purpose of the tar baby was as a trap to catch bre'r rabbit. The tar baby was not meant to be a representation of the african-american slave community. Besides, look at this movie as a child would, no prejudice, no pre-conceived notions--it's a wonderful tale about 2 friends, never mind the fact they are constantly chased by a 'bad guy' (I think he was a fox, but I don't remember for sure) and find creative (ok, some are more than a bit deceiving) ways of getting out of trouble. Somebody please tell me what type of sick individual took something so innocent and turned it into a politically-incorrect attack on the african-american community. The songs from this movie still stick in my head today. "Zippity-Do-Dah, Zippity-yay, my oh my what a wonderful day, plenty of sunshine headed my way, zippity-do-dah, zippity-yay." And what about "Mr. Bluebird on My Shoulder?" I still have a 45rpm record of this story (by goldenbooks), and I am unashamed to say that the songs still make me chuckle at 30. Now that I've ranted--it definately should be re-released!!
(This post was edited by mishadark2003 on May 18, 2005, 1:48 PM)
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Newbie
Posted:
Jun 5, 2005, 7:33 PM
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I must say that I remember watching Song of the South when I was a kid and never once thought about the political correctness of it. I had the 45 RPM with the read-along-book and I have searched through all my boxes of childhood memorabilia to find it, but I guess it was lost because I have not been able to locate it. I have searched numerous websites trying to find another copy of it because I have a 7 year old little brother that I think would love it. I was able to obtain a copy of the movie from overseas by purchasing a poster of Uncle Remus' Syrup for $50 and the bonus for that purchase was a fairly poor copy of the movie. I definitely think that it should be released on DVD. If people find it offensive they don't have to buy it. I look at movies and cartoons of today and there are several that I find offensive, so I just don't watch them! It seems pretty simple to me. What really baffles me is that you can still buy a copy of The Complete Tales of Uncle Remus, which is rather difficult to read because of the dialect, but you can't find a copy of Song of the South anywhere!! I had heard that Song of the South was supposed to be released sometime in the near future - I truly hope so! I am a big fan of Disney movies and would like to have a good, clear copy of that one for my collection.
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Inbetweener
Posted:
Jun 8, 2005, 8:11 PM
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People forget that SOTS had a theatrical rerelease as late as the mid-1980s (I'm thinking 1986 but could be wrong) and that the world didn't stop spinning because of it. I'm also amazed that the people who think it's so terribly racist haven't seen it. Or haven't seen it recently. Uncle Remus is THE most sympathetic character in the piece -- certainly more appealing than the cold and heartless whites....
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Animator
Posted:
Aug 23, 2005, 11:12 PM
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Ever note hwo Sinatra syaing (expletive deleted) to a woman in the media - not to disparage the superstar- can be allowed (because mama mia, he's Itlian) but un POC TOONS aren't?
Both due to: SONG OF THE SOUTH reprsenting anti-swing Protestatism vs Sinatra's Noo yawk swagger which a has sadly, in its badboy way, repsented modern tasdstes (as opposed to Bing Crosby, THE star amoing women back the n), and becuase cartoons of course "are Kids stuff" and Sinatra's swing (MUCH more un PC ) ain..t
Cheers
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Okay, so you're Brad Pitt..--Shania Twain (that's her in my avatar---I can't put a title underneath it! :))
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Re: Black Cauldron and Song of South
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Re: Black Cauldron and Song of South
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