Inbetweener
Posted:
Apr 10, 2010, 12:48 PM
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The Burning Question(s) about Fantasia Blu-ray
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While watching the opening previews to The Princess And The Frog Blu-ray, I saw a Diamond Edition trailer for a certian something that promises great restoration and lots of bonuses- including having all the films ever made be on one release.
So, here is the burning question all die-hard animation fans want to know, including ones that think Disney is an important conrtibution: Will the Fantasia diamond edition be uncut, complete with Sunflower the Centuar not altered in any form, plus the original titles with the RKO logo? Or will it be that awful censored 1990 reissue or even other Buena Vista reiussues? They did a great job making sure Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs had its original titles that it almost looked liked they laid it out like a Silly Symphony title sequence. But with intermissions being on the one of the orginials and Song Of The South not being released, plus the possibility that this card below is refilmed to obscure references to RKO and to possibly update union bugs, both for a reissue (correct me if I'm wrong):
I'm not sure that this will be uncut. Plus, is it really possible that the Fantasound track will be restored or recreated with a DTS-HD Master Audio soundtrack?
What do you think? Make a guess on this forum.
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"My body may belong to you, but my soul belongs to Warner Bros."
-Uncle Tom, "Uncle Tom's Bungalow" (1937)
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Directing Animator
Posted:
Apr 13, 2010, 8:53 PM
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Re: The Burning Question(s) about Fantasia Blu-ray
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Fantasia has undergone many changes since it was first released in 1940.
First, there were two editions of the film:
1. A "roadshow" edition that toured major U.S. cities and required an elaborate "Fantasound" projection and speaker set-up; which ultimately proved to be too expensive. In addition, Disney had lost his valuable overseas distribution because of the war raging in Europe. This hurt the studio's chances of recouping the money spent on making the film. IIRC, it was not until the film was re-released in the early 1970's that the studio began to see any profit from it. It is a recreation of the roadshow edition that was used for the 60th Anniversary DVD
2. A regular edition of the film, which had been re-cut to trim the running time, also had a remixed monaural soundtrack up until the 1960's when the film was re-released with a more standard, 2-channel stereo sound track. It was this edition (in which the "Fantasia" title card appears at the beginning of the film instead of at the start of the intermission that was featured in the Roadshow edition) that was restored in 1990 for the film's 50th anniversary.
In the 1980's the original soundtrack had been replaced with a newly-recorded digital soundtrack by Irwin Kostal, conducting an orchestra of contract musicians. The Deems Taylor introductions were removed and Gary Owens provided off-screen narration.
When Fantasia was being restored in 1990, the original Fantasound tracks that had been laid down by Leopold Stokowski and the Philadelphia Orchestra could not be found. In fact, the last time they had been seen was in (I think) 1955. At that time, the studio was concerned that the original optical tracks would not continue to survive in their present state.
Therefore, the 9 separate music and vocal tracks were condensed into a 3-channel mix that was transferred onto magnetic tape or film. As I understand it, the original tracks were played at the Disney Studio in Burbank and fed over telephone wires to RCA's facilities in Hollywood. The only problem was that the frequency response of the original recordings was cut-off at certain levels and there was some electronic "hum" that ended up on the newly-mixed tapes.
Terry Porter, who had overseen the restoration of the original Fantasound soundtrack, was able to recreate the original 9-channel configuration from technical data in the Disney Archives and by using both an archival print of the film and the soundtrack LP as references.
The new transfer was digitally cleaned up to remove as many transient noises and defects as possible and the results were somewhat impressive. Because of the frequency loss that occurred during the first transfer in 1955, however, the restored soundtrack did not have quite the presence and range of the original film when it was first released.
The original multichannel recordings have been missing for decades (including all the Deems Taylor material, which had to be re-dubbed by an actor for the 50th and 60th Anniversary Edition video releases) and even if they could be found, they have probably deteriorated beyond repair.
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"I'd like to cover you with furs and automobiles!"
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Directing Animator
Posted:
Apr 14, 2010, 2:53 AM
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Re: The Burning Question(s) about Fantasia Blu-ray
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BTW, for the 60th Anniversary "Roadshow" Edition, they did use the original "Fantasia" title card with the RKO Radio Pictures logo. It appeared in it's proper place at the start of the intermission and was visible (IIRC) for the entire length of the intermission period (which, of course, can be skipped on a DVD/Blu-Ray player)
What I'm hoping is that the forthcoming DVD "Platinum Edition" of the film will include all of the bonus features that were on the limited edition 3-DVD set (which also included the inferior, IMHO, "Fantasia 2000")
I, too, would love to see the "Sunflower" bits restored to the film proper; but I'm guessing that if these bits are included at all, they will be tacked on as a separate bonus feature that is prefaced by a lengthy disclaimer by Leonard Maltin.
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"I'd like to cover you with furs and automobiles!"
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Member
Posted:
Nov 5, 2010, 6:50 AM
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Re: The Burning Question(s) about Fantasia Blu-ray
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Several years ago I left voice mail at All Things Considered (which they aired), suggesting that Disney should stop worrying about censoring their old films, that hiding what they did is worse than having done it in the first place, and that exposing prejudices of another era, it becomes easier for parents to discuss them with their children.
Some months ago I made a direct complaint to Disney's customer-service department (they're polite, and say they listen, but who knows?), and posted a one-star negative review on Amazon, in the hopes a cascade of complaints about the censored versions of Fantasia would shame Disney into providing an "original" version. But unlike the screams of rage projected at Lord of the Rings, the critical tsunami I'd hoped for did not occur.
Both DVD and Blu-ray support "multi-angle" viewing. It should be a simple matter to provide the offending sequence in its original form, perhaps as an undocumented Easter egg. This would make more sense than including it as a supplement. (I have nothing against Leonard Maltin personally, but his Disneyphilia too often seems to be an undifferentiated infatuation.)
I prefer the terser, edited-down versions of the introductions. (The full-length intros are much too long.) The originals with Deems Taylor's voice exist, and should be restored.
I don't see how the original soundtrack could be restored. To paraphrase Rick... "Of all the optical soundtracks of all the movies in all the world... why did Fantasia's have to be destroyed by nitrate decomposition?" Unless the stems magically show up, we will never hear Fantasia as it was recorded. Stokowski was at his pre-fussy peak, and some of these performances (including Sorcerer's Apprentice and Swan of Tuonela) are the best that have ever been recorded.
I saved the deluxe 3-DVD set (rather than trading it in at a local dealer), on the assumption I wouldn't be buying the Blu-ray set. But as I have two $10 coupons, and can get the set for next to nothing, I guess it will be bought.
I agree that Fantasia 2000 is pretty lame. The only wholly successful episode is the shortest, the one with the flamingos. I'm also curious as to why the ending of The Firebird was changed. Could the fundys again have been intruding (as they did with Rite)? (The original ending is extremely animistic.) The inclusion of the original Sorcerer's Apprentice only throws into sharp relief how generally unimaginative the sequel was.
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Intern
Posted:
Nov 9, 2010, 7:08 AM
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Re: The Burning Question(s) about Fantasia Blu-ray
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I know I might sound like an idiot when I ask this. What made Fantasia so great? I did not like it personally. Can someone please give me their opinion on the movie?
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Member
Posted:
Nov 9, 2010, 9:25 AM
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Re: The Burning Question(s) about Fantasia Blu-ray
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Fantasia was an outgrowth of Disney's earlier Silly Symphonies. The first of these was The Skeleton Dance, a surprise hit, which used creepy classical music from Grieg and other composers. It's not clear how the series started, but it seems that Carl Stalling, who at that time worked for Disney (and who is to animated cartoons roughly what Bernard Herrmann is to live-action films), wanted cartoons where the music was the focus. (That is, the animation followed the music, rather than the music being written to follow the animation.) Regardless of who thought of the idea, Disney recognized that the Silly Symphonies were a necessary alternative to the Mickey Mouse cartoons, and provided a way for his artists to improve their animation skills. The Goddess of Spring, for example, was a warm-up for animating the female figure in Snow White.
By the late '30s, Mickey Mouse was in a state of decline. Parents' protests over The Mouse's rambunctious behavior, combined with the increasing popularity of The Duck, left Walt trying to come up with something to restore the fortunes of his favorite creation. Someone -- it might have been Leopold Stokowski -- suggested that a short subject of Dukas' The Sorcerer's Apprentice would be a good idea. The piece was recorded with the LA Philharmonic (in the best performance it has ever received on record) and the film made. Of course, it was so expensive that it could never recoup its production costs as a short subject. This, in turn, led to the idea of The Concert Feature, which would have multiple segments using various pieces of classical music.
I assume the classical music is your problem. As all of it is more than five years old, it can't be any good, and therefore the film is crap. But I'll continue, anyway.
Working with Stokowski, other pieces were selected and recorded with the Philadelphia Orchestra. Stokowski was aware of Bell Telephone's experiments with multi-channel sound, and suggested that a multi-track recording would give much-more-realistic results. This led to the development of Fantasound, the first time stereo (and surround) sound were used in a motion picture (as far as I know). Fantasia was also intended to be filmed in 70mm, though whether it would have been widescreen is not known. (Probably not.)
Fantasia (the name was chosen from employee submissions -- it's the musical term for a free or loose development of a musical idea) was pretty much a bomb. The artsy-fartsy critics who had previously adored Disney decried its degradation of Great Classical Music and excoriated its "tastelessness". (Of course, Fanatasia has done more to interest people in the classics than just about anything else in the history of music.) There was also the problem of shipping tons of sound equipment for roadshow presentations, and as in the case of Pinocchio, WW II cut off a major source of income. (It would likely have been a huge success in Europe.) RKO chopped the film to 90 minutes or so, and it bombed again in theaters across the country. It wasn't until the late '50s that repeated re-issues finally put Fantasia in the black. It was particularly popular during the '70s with the psychedelic generation.
Whether you like Fantasia depends a lot on how you feel about mixing music and animation. One might argue that music doesn't need pictures, but Disney himself said he sometimes needed to "see" the music in order to understand it. (One of Fantasia's advertising slogans was "See the music. Hear the pictures.")
At least half the segments are classics. Ponchielli's Dance of the Hours is a broad spoof of classical ballet, with hungry alligators running after plump hippopotami in tutus. If you don't think this is funny, there's something wrong with your sense of humor. The selections from Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker are beautiful evocations of the music, with the mushrooms in the Chinese Dance charming and funny. (And "suggestive", if you're into drugs.) Night on Bald Mountain is generally considered one of the greatest pieces of animation, ever, by anyone. (Chernabog was animated by Bill Tytla, one of the all-time-great animators.)
No one is obliged to like anything, but if you don't find most of Fantasia simply fun -- or beautiful... what can I say?
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