Inbetweener
Posted:
Jan 20, 2012, 11:32 AM
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Tom and Jerry - your thoughts?
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Well, guys, since i'm a lion myself and that these great cartoons themselves open with a lion in the titles, I might as well start a thread about these famous and well known guys, forget the utterly unwatchable Gene Deitch stuff and the reasanobly better Chuck Jones' stuff for now, i'm talking about the original Hanna-Barbera stuff.
Based on the one shot Rudy Ising produced cartoon " Puss Gets the Boot" and a long time television and cinema staple from the MGM cartoon department, handled by none other than Harman-Ising leftover Bill Hanna and former Van Beuren/ Terrytoons artist Joe Barbera, this humble Cat and Mouse team is very fondly remebered by their great animation from Kenneth Muse, Ray Patterson, Irvin Spence, Mike Lah and the others, and their breakneck proffessional timing supplied by Bill Hanna, not to metion those hillarious screams and sounds preformed by Bill Hanna as well.
All of those have made them extremely well known and very fondly liked by many people, both young and old alike, in fact, just about the only things that have been critized was the violence within the chase scenes, resorting to use of weapons to make it stand out from the usual cat and mouse fare, but there has been MUCH worse, look at the Herman and Katnip series from Famous Studios, the violence in those things are much more gruesome (specifically also see Herman the Cattoonist, where Herman slices off one of Katnip's appeandages, his leg) and more morbid, not to metion it goes to the point were it gets severly traumatizing (what kind of preception of reality is that sending to innocent little kids and even youthful adults who already know better by now, considering no blood is shown in those things, when if the actions in the H&K cartoons were done in real life there most defiently will be blood and even more extremely worse dire carange shown indeed!, in my defense, i know it's all just a cartoon and therfore it's defiantly not real at all, but still, cartoons still have to show a sense of balance inbetween the funny stuff) that they make Tom and Jerry feel extremely tame and like 1980s Hanna Barbera (psst, Kwicky Koala), but all in all, though, i consider Tom and Jerry to be much more better drawn and better animated (and even sometimes better written) than any of those Herman and Katnip cartoons, plus when Tom and Jerry had it's share of animation going downhill, at least, the animation (while it already became extremely bland and sterile, especially in the one with the Barbecue) still at least still moved flowingly and fluidly while Herman and Katnip having it's animation downfall share was reduced to static lines, unnessacary holds, and clunky choppy movement and stilted talking heads (rarely bobbing the head at times, even, just goes to show you, with huge execptions of course with Morey Reden and Johnny Gent being one of them, how bland and stiff the Famous Studios animators were in comparision to the best and even the average of the other animators on the studios out west) , which was later pretty much the animation formula standard for the TV Popeyes Seymour Knietel did and those ugly and extreanous Modern Madcaps.
Anway, back on topic by moving on to the good things, i think one of the characters' best and most heartwarming cartoons were The Little Orphan, The Missing Mouse, Mouse in Mahattan, Love That Pup, Jerry and the Lion and Cat Napping and one of their wildest was Zoot Cat, Yankee Doodle Mouse and the Million Dollar Cat and by far for now, their most violent was in Quiet Please, The Flying Cat and Trap Happy (funny, Trap Happy is pretty tame compared to the two).
Meanwhile let's hear your say on Tom and Jerry, the famous cat and mouse duo  .
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Everything the Light Touches Is Our Kingdom.
ROAR!, Confound it, Kiddies, Don't miss my Cartoon Show! - King Leonardo.
(This post was edited by Lion55 on Jan 20, 2012, 11:43 AM)
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Key Animator / Contributor
Posted:
Jan 20, 2012, 8:41 PM
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There's an interview with Joe Barbera in one of the Spotlight Collections of Tom and Jerry, where he mentions that MGM's producers scoffed at the idea of a cat-and-mouse cartoon. "Cat and mouse has been done already. There's nowhere left to go with it. Cat and mouse is dead." But Joe Barbera and Bill Hanna defied their bosses, and produced Puss Gets The Boot in 1940. Later, when one of MGM's larger distributors asked, "When you gonna make another one?" MGM management had to give Bill and Joe free rein on making cartoons.
There was something about the Friendly-Enemy yin-yang dynamic that took Tom and Jerry above the one-dimensional cat versus mouse cartoon. This yin-yang pairing has worked gorgeously elsewhere as well: Ralph and Alice Kramden of The Honeymooners; Felix Unger and Oscar Madison of The Odd Couple, and especially the Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck interplay seen in the Hunter Trilogy.
Joe Barbera and Bill Hanna have made cartoons for pretty much their entire lives. Great actors have an understanding of their craft that enables them to connect easily with an audience; the same holds true of great cartoon makers. Eight thousand cartoons don't happen by accident. Rather, that happens when Bill and Joe kept on hearing, "When you gonna make another one?"
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Directing Animator / Contributor
Posted:
Jan 21, 2012, 11:45 AM
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"Tom and Jerry" does showcase that the little guy underdog can win out over the bigger-sized bully in different humorous ways. It can get predictable if the mouse always wins and the cat always loses in every cartoon, though. Every few times, Jerry might get a come-uppance from overdoing it with the violence against Tom or Tom winning a few battles even if he loses the war at the end...so it breaks the monotony.
Terrytoons' "Mighty Mouse" and most of their cat vs. mouse or bird cartoons are usually way too predictable. Most times, the cats are often labelled the bad guys from the start and getting abused by the smaller mice or birds even when the mice or birds were usually the cause of the trouble in the first place (stealing food, being blatently careless)...it is hard to work up any sympathy when the smaller "underdogs" provoked the larger animal , either minding his own business or acting on natural instinct, in the first place.
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"Don't chew gum on camera. Don't whistle. You may kiss Bob Barker but please don't kill him." -announcer Johnny Olson briefing the audience of potential contestants for "The Price is Right"
(This post was edited by artytoons on Jan 21, 2012, 11:50 AM)
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Inbetweener
Posted:
Jan 22, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Ironically (and as i mentioned before), one of the Tom and Jerry directors, Joe Barbera, had been formerly working at Terrytoons (and also previously had been working for Van Beuren and had got his start at Fleischer Studios), and another problem with Terry's Mighty Mouse cartoons is that (but not all) about entire half of the cartoons is always this extremely annoying Pearl Pureheart/Oil Can Harry Simon Legree opera rip-off that is repeated over and over and over again, usually to no variety and while the Jim Tyer and sometimes Carlo Vinci animation is said to be the saving grace of these monstrosities, it doesn't really hide what's truly there inside, a bad cartoon is a bad cartoon, it seems even Paul Terry himself knew it.
Anyway back on topic, the really best things about Tom and Jerry were that at least the characters actually have feelings for one another and show emphatically what they really think of one another (see the most common "Tom and Jerry" title cards) and therefore helps it maintain a sense of variety which is also proven in cartoons such as Jerry and the Lion (my brother before he got all itchy), Old Rocking Chair Tom, even something like Cue Ball Cat, The Little Orphan, The Bodyguard and of course Dog Trouble (remember that one where they had problems with Spike, they had to team up to outsmart him), unlike The Road Runner - Coyote series which, saying for now, is pretty much feels to me the exact same cartoon (the series is original, fresh and great as a one shot) reused many times seeing how they don't always really change the setting too much (no offense Wiley Coyote and in his defense he later appeared in the Bugs Bunny cartoons) and the extremely ruthless Tweety and Slvyester cartoons in which they do not show any feelings or empathy whatsoever, nor do they show any true variety whatsoever, that's how one dimensional they can be (with a few exceptions sometimes), although even Tom and Jerry was prone to having it's share of being one dimensional with no personality when they started adding annoying sidekicks and characters (like Yakky Doodle, called Quacker here, and i still consider them the same character), but all in all, i still like Tom and Jerry more than the mentioned Tweety and Road Runner cartoons, i've got no problems if you disagree, that's why we are all entitled to our own opinions, that way we are free to discuss how we feel in a good way.
And speaking of which and regarding Professor Tom, the character layout drawings in that one are extremely nasty and amateur, i mean it's so a far cry from the slick professional looking layouts Harvey Eisnberg provided (up to Old Rockin' Chair Tom) is that it's extremely wobbly, stiff, clunky, rigid and extremely dull that it brings those wretched and badly drawn Gene Deitch cartoons to mind, i mean some of the drawings of Tom in that one resembles roughly exactly that of Gene Deitch's filth while the smaller cat in the same cartoon feels like via time travel that they took the kitten design from an Auggie Doggie cartoon that featured a Wildcat from 1959 and changed it only very slightly to blend with 1940s cartoon standards (i.e without the Ed Benedict style lines, meaning not stylized), even the animation style is like this, i mean look at the scene were Tom is pursuing the Kitten as the kitten chases Jerry before banging into a table, the level of animation in the scene is roughly exactly the same as the chase scenes in the H-B television cartoons changed only to suit, again, 1940s cartoon standards (meaning only with more frames of animation), a pot boiler if you ask me, but, other than that this maybe one of the very first times that Dick Bickenbach starting doing the layouts (from Harvey Eisnberg and Joe Barbera of course) and remember that weak and badly drawn character layouts and staging can also affect animation as well.
And Tom and Jerry didn't seem to be the only one, a few of Tex Avery's stuff from the same period seemed to also suffer (referring specifically to George and Junior redesigns for Half Pint Pygmy to the cartoony Irv Spence models and the Droopy design for Senor Droopy) from rather sloppy, inbred, mushy and smooshed designs in this period (but only on a little few, as a matter of fact, the animation was still strong and well done and Ol' Mr. Tex still strong as well), Louie Schmitt was probably okay as an animator, but he was really crummy as a designer though, but please spare me for now, because i haven't really seen his animation work yet?
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Everything the Light Touches Is Our Kingdom.
ROAR!, Confound it, Kiddies, Don't miss my Cartoon Show! - King Leonardo.
(This post was edited by Lion55 on Jan 22, 2012, 11:41 AM)
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Supervising Animator
Posted:
Jan 22, 2012, 6:03 PM
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I like Tom, but I can't stand Jerry. However...I like a few cartoons where Jerry would be friends with Tom.
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Thank God for kids who love obscure things-Lee Hazelwood (1929-2007)
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Inbetweener
Posted:
Jan 23, 2012, 3:26 PM
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The episodes where Jerry is friends with Tom were Old Rockin' Chair Tom, Tot Watchers, Busy Buddies and in the middle of The Truce Hurts before they go back to their normal actions, per usual and that is not counting those lame overplayed (and where i live) overrated 1970s Hanna Barbera cartoons were Tom and Jerry were friends ONLY because of the really stupid and idiot Peggy Charren parental concerns (ACT) of cartoon violence and stuff and that wretched, poorly drawn 1993 Tom and Jerry feature film mess in which they also talk non-stop throughout the whole thing.
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Everything the Light Touches Is Our Kingdom.
ROAR!, Confound it, Kiddies, Don't miss my Cartoon Show! - King Leonardo.
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Inbetweener
Posted:
Jan 27, 2012, 1:48 PM
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You know, i can think of another one of their positively heartwarming cartoons, and that is Hatch Up Your Troubles, which was later remade in CinemaScope as The Egg and Jerry, you know, to kill time, i actually don't mind the CinemaScope reissues of the older cartoons, i find them a great way to kill lots and lots of time, i just wish there were more CinemaScope remakes so that there could be more Cinemascope remakes of old cartoons to kill lots of time, you know such as times when it's time to eat your dinner and need something to watch at it, this could have also prevented the MGM cartoon studio from closing, by the way, a handful isn't enough that way.
and on the other hand, i could also think of their worst too, BUT only when i'm ready!.
And sorry if i'd hog up the space in this thread, lots of attracted views, but very slow replies.
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Everything the Light Touches Is Our Kingdom.
ROAR!, Confound it, Kiddies, Don't miss my Cartoon Show! - King Leonardo.
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Key Animator / Contributor
Posted:
Jan 27, 2012, 9:06 PM
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Just as a reference, Lion55, you might want to take a gander at BCDB members' favorites in the Tom and Jerry series. It starts here: http://forum.bcdb.com/...forum.cgi?post=65444
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Inbetweener
Posted:
Jan 28, 2012, 4:27 PM
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Yes i took a gander at that thread, but can't make a reply to it because that thread is around 6 years old and i can't make replies to 6 year old threads, it might crochnically confuse someone.
now that it was put this way. i'd like to mention their worst, i think the most ugliest looking and drawn cartoon that they starred in was Blue Cat Blues and Robin Hoodwinked, YIKES 
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Everything the Light Touches Is Our Kingdom.
ROAR!, Confound it, Kiddies, Don't miss my Cartoon Show! - King Leonardo.
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Supervising Animator
Posted:
Jan 29, 2012, 6:04 PM
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Yes i took a gander at that thread, but can't make a reply to it because that thread is around 6 years old and i can't make replies to 6 year old threads, it might crochnically confuse someone. now that it was put this way. i'd like to mention their worst, i think the most ugliest looking and drawn cartoon that they starred in was Blue Cat Blues and Robin Hoodwinked, YIKES
I feel the ugliest Tom and Jerry cartoons were the Gene Dietch Era...
They felt that they were made by limited animation! Even Loopy de Loop was MORE entertaining than the 12 Dietch Tom and Jerry Cartoons!
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Thank God for kids who love obscure things-Lee Hazelwood (1929-2007)
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Inbetweener
Posted:
Jan 30, 2012, 1:28 PM
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Well, actually, there were 13 Gene Deitch Tom and Jerry cartoons, BUT you were EXTREMELY close  .
Anyway, i was talking more in terms of the regular H-B stuff, and the less said about those hideous and mind-rotting Filmation cartoons, the better!
Actually, since i had the misfortune of sitting thorugh them when i should have been watching the stop-motion plasticene animated series Dragon, here's what i have to say about their version of T&J: It is abominably horrible, the fact that Lou Schiemer (their Zorro series doesn't count) keeping everything in-house in the US, (including the animations) doesn't save anything at all because you can see the old timers working on these cartoons were all too old and worn out by this time, ready to retire and the most offensive thing to me is the music, god all this synth stuff used (and synth in general) pinches my ear to bleeding wounds and drives me up the wall and in loud volume just pops them completley, i have to tell you, it was that bad  .
and click on the attachment pics... if you dare  .
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Everything the Light Touches Is Our Kingdom.
ROAR!, Confound it, Kiddies, Don't miss my Cartoon Show! - King Leonardo.
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