Apprentice
Posted:
Nov 11, 2006, 3:45 PM
|
|
Was Tex Avery A Racist
|
|
|
I ask Tex Avery because his cartoons seem to have the most amount of offensive jokes in, plus I've read that the model sheet he used for the hunter in "All This And Rabbit Stew" was labeled "Tex's Coon", so was Avery actually a racist or were the gags in his caroons just put in to be funny without any racial intent?
|
|
Lead Animator / Contributor
Posted:
Nov 11, 2006, 4:15 PM
|
his cartoons seem to have the most amount of offensive jokes in
Do they? Avery cartoons tend to cram more jokes in than almost any other director, but more racial stereotype jokes than other films of the period? I'm not convinced.
the model sheet he used for the hunter in "All This And Rabbit Stew" was labeled "Tex's Coon"
This might suggest that the guy who drew the model sheet was racist; it might also imply a racist culture within the studio - but it doesn't actually prove that Tex himself was racist.
I have no knowledge one way or the other about Avery's prejudices, but I would be unwilling to brand someone with such an all-encompassing human sense of humour as holding serious racist beliefs on such flimsy "evidence". I tend to think that such 'racism' as was present was the unthinking, stereotypical kind that existed in society at that time - a rather patronising attitude to black people. It was wrong, but it was out there.
Directors like Clampett just loved the whole Black Jazz-Culture Thing, and wanted to celebrate it. On the other hand the Lantz studio Jazz cartoons seemed to miss the point and just go for the cheap (and offensive) stereotype gags.
For Avery I think the Gag was all - I don't think he was expressing a prejudice; just looking for what felt to him like a good gag - and everything was fair game.
-------------------------
("La-la La-la I can't HEAR you!")
(This post was edited by peterhale on Nov 11, 2006, 4:33 PM)
|
|
Forum Admin
Posted:
Nov 11, 2006, 5:57 PM
|
I think itis pointless, unfair, and maybe even provovactive to judge someone's past work by todays standards. By todays standards, Ghandi is racist. You could probably make a case MLK was racist, too, if you wanted to. Certianly, JFK and FDR were... again, by todays standards. None of these men are here to defend themselves, or provide any comment on their motivation. One must also look at the times in which these men lived; they were probably some of the more progessive people of their period... but in our period, they are racist savages.
Additionally, in the case of Avery, Clampett, et. al., is it even proper to make such a claim based on their work? I think not; their primary concern was to entertain, not enlighten. They worked within the accepted social confines of their era. They worked concurrently with Amos an' Andy, Jolsen and others. They were no worse, and in some cases better- Clampett was not making fun of Blacks in Coal Black as much as he was trying to expose people to new Black music.
To REALLY know if they were racist, we would really need to know how they interacted on a daily level. And I see little evidence of cross burning or lynching on the WB back lots in the 40's or 50s. As far as I know, there were no segragated drawing tables.
I really think discussions such as this are pointless. There is no way we can transport ourselves back in time. And who really cares? I mean, lets just suppose Avery was racist- what difference does it make? Are we going to burn his cartoons now because of it? That would be far worse than whether or not a great comic was racist. Or sexist. Or hated elephants.
-------------------------
Dave Koch
Big Cartoon DataBase
|
|
Inbetweener
Posted:
Nov 11, 2006, 8:30 PM
|
Well, I agree with peterhale and Dave Koch. I never met him personally so I'll never know for sure, but I have heavy doubts that he was actually a racist. His cartoon Uncle Tom's Cabana certainly WASN'T racist at all (I actually thought the portrayal of the characters were even positive or neutral at the least), and as far as his blackface gags go, seemed to be gags for the sake of gags and a spoof more on blackface/minstrelsy than ridicule of actual black people.
-------------------------
wackyoverkhaki has spoken. Nyyyyyeeeeah!
(This post was edited by wackyoverkhaki on Nov 11, 2006, 8:36 PM)
|
|
Jpeg Master / Moderator
Posted:
Nov 12, 2006, 2:41 PM
|
I never met him personally so I'll never know for sure...
And if you did meet him, how would you know he's a racist? I crack very racial jokes on the regular, but does that make me a racist. Everyone is a little racist in my honest opinion, but most decent individuals do not reveal the inner most thoughts in public, and thank the lord for that.
I believe the term stereotyping is more appropriate than racism in our discussion here. It's a fine line, but our cartoons deserve better.
|
|
Inbetweener
Posted:
Nov 13, 2006, 2:24 PM
|
I never met him personally so I'll never know for sure... And if you did meet him, how would you know he's a racist? I crack very racial jokes on the regular, but does that make me a racist. Everyone is a little racist in my honest opinion, but most decent individuals do not reveal the inner most thoughts in public, and thank the lord for that. I believe the term stereotyping is more appropriate than racism in our discussion here. It's a fine line, but our cartoons deserve better.
 Ok...judging by that response you obviously didn't even take the time to read my whole post.
-------------------------
wackyoverkhaki has spoken. Nyyyyyeeeeah!
|
|
Jpeg Master / Moderator
Posted:
Nov 14, 2006, 3:55 PM
|
Ok that's pretty insulting, but I'll let it slide. 
|
|
Inbetweener
Posted:
Feb 7, 2007, 9:05 PM
|
I'm sure being raised in Texas during the height of segregation didn't help Avery to be a more enlightened citizen. The type of ethnic humor Avery employed was prevelant in those days, and a fair amount of superiority over, and sometimes even contempt of, blacks does seep through.
But did he actually hate black people, though? I don't think we have anyway of knowing for sure.
|
|
Director / Contributor
Posted:
Feb 8, 2007, 6:43 AM
|
Now that we're on the subject, just what was small town Texas like in the '10's & '20's? I know the movie Birth of a Nation renewed an interest in the KKK and thus it's membership was at 1,000,000 strong by 1921 or thereabouts. How much of that came from Texas?
By the way, I've heard that there is still segregation within Texas to this day. In some parts of Texas there are exclusively "white" and "coloured" malls.
-------------------------
http://exposure.cbc.ca/video/hansel-und-gretel
|
|
Zinc Saucier
Posted:
Feb 8, 2007, 2:29 PM
|
In practice, perhaps. In hard reality, no way in hell. What's the difference, you say? Well, by hard reality, I mean that there would be no signs to that effect, no legal body attempting to enforce anything like that, and little patience from the outside world with those who held that mentality.
Now, in practice of course, I'm sure there are some people who would try to keep others out of "their" mall- be they white, black, or hispanic. But as to what degree that actually happens, I wouldn't think it's even as big as a mall.
-------------------------
AnimationHQ
(This post was edited by krisAHQ on Feb 9, 2007, 8:37 PM)
|
|
Supervising Animator
Posted:
Feb 8, 2007, 7:41 PM
|
Last year in Dallas Tx., an elementary school principal separated the white students from the black and hispanic students. This was going on for years (despite the teachers and assistant principal trying to raise concern) until a hispanic parent sued for illegal segregation. The judge "declared that the school's principal violated the rights of minority children by assigning them to classrooms based on race." The district (DISD) claimed that they didn't know the segregation was happening. The principal had to pay a fine but I don't know if she has been fired or not. Personally, I'm surprised that all this happened in the first place.
Read the whole article here.
But I never heard anything about segregation in any mall.
|
|
Apprentice
Posted:
Feb 10, 2007, 8:02 AM
|
I'm sure being raised in Texas during the height of segregation didn't help Avery to be a more enlightened citizen. The type of ethnic humor Avery employed was prevelant in those days, and a fair amount of superiority over, and sometimes even contempt of, blacks does seep through.
But did he actually hate black people, though? I don't think we have anyway of knowing for sure.
Raised in Texas, never thought of that. So there is evidence that he may have been racist?
In all honesty, this thread was created for conformation more than anything. Conformation that one of my favorite cartoonists wasn't a racist. I only thought that there was the smallest chance that he may have been but I still wanted to check.
The reason for Tex Avery being the subject of my thread was because he was pretty much the only one I remotley suspected
Chuck Jones and Friz Freleng - Giving how recently they died (ecspecially Jones) I find it very hard to believe they were racists, ecspecially in their later years. Plus Jones had cartoons with Inki, which contrary to popular belief were not racist.
Bob Clampett - I think it's pretty obvious that his cartoons are only racist by todays standards and that they were never intended to be even the least bit offensive, that and the fact that he, unlike most people at the time used real black people to do the voices for his characters in "Coal Black", there's no way he was racist.
but with Tex Avery cartoons like "Uncle Tom's Cabin" and "All This And Rabbit Stew" seemed pretty offensive, with white men doing stereotypical impressions of black men, he died in 1980 plus the thing about being raised in the South in the early 1900s makes me suspect that there may have been a small chance of him being a racist. A suspection which I of course would liked to be proved wrong, so if anyone has any further information it would be greatly appreciated.
(This post was edited by abcdefg on Feb 10, 2007, 8:03 AM)
|
|
Inbetweener
Posted:
Feb 12, 2007, 11:29 AM
|
abcdefg,
Evidence? No, there's no definite proof that he was racist. No colleagues have ever mentioned it. Plus, that type of ethnic humor was considered okay by white society in those days.
Like you say, there are more examples of that type of gag in Avery's cartoons than those of his peers. (Hanna & Barbera used quite a bit of those type of gags in their own Tom & Jerry cartoons, too.) That type of humor disappears in the 50's with the rise of the civil rights movement.
|
|
Member
Posted:
Mar 8, 2007, 11:46 AM
|
Tex Avery is more out dated than anything else. What may seem racist to us was not then, though some things may have meant that and a lot have been taken out of context. Tex Avery himself? You may never know because in the end, you'll end up questioning every other cartoon maker of the day if they were racist in a smiliar way because - in fact - most cartoons during this early stage of development were racist by todays standards.
-Selim
|
|
Key Animator
Posted:
Apr 24, 2007, 6:51 PM
|
I'm going to have to go with...no.
Poking fun at Minorities like that was the thing back then, even Italian-Americans were poked fun at. (Though you may not see those cartoons anymore.) And those cartoons were aimed toward adults rather than children. The stuff that you see on South Park and The Simpsons were the stuff that came from Tex Avery cartoons. (Though Bugs Bunny never dropped an N-Bomb.)
BTW-Many Black Comedians use those cartoons and that in their movies and poking fun at that stereotype, like the WB frog in that Dave Chappelle skit.
-------------------------
Thank God for kids who love obscure things-Lee Hazelwood (1929-2007)
|
|
Director / Contributor
Posted:
Apr 24, 2007, 10:05 PM
|
BTW-Many Black Comedians use those cartoons and that in their movies and poking fun at that stereotype, like the WB frog in that Dave Chappelle skit.
The problem with that is Dave Chappelle jumped to a conclusion with that one. He simply assumed that Michigan J. was patterned after Al Jolson. Sure, Mr. Jolson's style of entertainment had a huge impact on animators at pretty much every classic studio. But, according to the featurette about One Froggy Evening on LTGC2, all the songs the frog sings come from 1918 long before Jolson made it big. Therefore, there is no hard evidence that Michigan J Frog is even referencing black people let alone making fun of them.
-------------------------
http://exposure.cbc.ca/video/hansel-und-gretel
|
|
Inbetweener
Posted:
Sep 10, 2007, 7:28 PM
|
I realize this is an old thread, but I just thought of this: Avery made just as many "thrify" Scotsman jokes as he did blackface and racial gags. I guess he must have hated Scotsmen, too. (I'm being sarcastic, folks.)
|
|
Jpeg Master / Moderator
Posted:
Sep 10, 2007, 10:08 PM
|
Whoa easy there. Hate is a strong word. I know what you mean, but I think the certain ethnic groups in question here were and are just an easy target to parody.
|
|
Inbetweener
Posted:
Sep 11, 2007, 12:42 PM
|
Whoa easy there. Hate is a strong word. I know what you mean, but I think the certain ethnic groups in question here were and are just an easy target to parody. I was joking. I don't think Avery hated Scotsmen. I was just pointing out that he made fun of several ethnic groups, so if he was a racist he was an equal-opportunity one.
|
|
Jpeg Master / Moderator
Posted:
Sep 12, 2007, 1:06 AM
|
Right on! 
|
|
|
|
