I strongly wonder why Warner Brothers did not produce a cartoon inwhich "Bugs Bunny" defeats "Cecil Turtle, FINALLY! & not breaking the speed limit. "Bugs Bunny" has never defeated "Cecil Turtle" & he needs to, so he will not be winless. Bugs has won versus all other characters, EXCEPT "CECIL TURTLE"! 63x927is58401.
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"I Will Type To You, Later" & "BCDB's Math_Maestro"
I'll have to side with jrobin on this one. Anyone with a spotless record full of wins with nothing negative is boring. Actually, Marvel comics pretty much swear by this notion. That's why most of their crime fighting heroes are full of self-doubt and brood by themselves quite often.
Besdies, Bugs bouts with Cecil aren't the only times he's lost. In Bugs Bunny and the Three Bears (by Chuck Jones c. 1944) he ran away from Mama Bear screaming after one of his tricks backfired. In Captain Hareblower (by Friz Freleng c. 1954) Bugs stayed aboard his ship even though Yosemite Sam threw a match in his "powder room". He got blown up (blowed up reeeeeeeal gooooood) when he thought talcon powder doesn't explode. In Falling Hare (by Bob Clampett c. 1943) Bugs is constantly at the mercy of a gremlin sabotaging a plane. In Hold the Lion Please (by Chuck Jones c. 1942) Bugs gets P-whipped by his wife at the end. And, in Foxy by Proxy (by Friz Freleng c. 1952) Bugs gets his tail cut off by the stupidest of the fox hounds.
It's that imperfect track record that keeps Bugs interesting.
Bugs also lost to the mouse at the end of Rhapsody Rabbit. And he even lost to Elmer Fudd when he was hypnotized to believing he was Elmer in Fresh Hare.
I'm with jrobin and damfine on this one. As big a fan as I am of Bugs Bunny, I don't think it's a bad thing to see him lose once in a while. If Bugs could never lose, he'd soon become unbearable and unusable, rather like Mickey Mouse in that respect. It's these occasional failings that keep Bugs human (as human as a cartoon rabbit can get, anyways).
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Procrastinators unite....tomorrow.
(This post was edited by SpaceDemon on Feb 3, 2005, 1:28 PM)
I notice that in Captain Hareblower and in Foxy by Proxy, Bugs still managed to make his foes look like fools. In Captain Hareblower, he still managed to trick Yosemite Sam in jumping off the ship. Even when he loses, he "wins." As for Mickey Mouse, I remember some of his less gracious moments too. When he went throught a decline during the late '40's, Disney released cartoons in which Mickey was bested by a seal and by a gopher. Thus, nobody can win 'em all!
And he even lost to Elmer Fudd when he was hypnotized to believing he was Elmer in Fresh Hare.
Actually, that was The Hare-Brained Hypnotist (by Friz Freleng c. 1942). Bugs won in Fresh Hare. He escaped being executed in front of a firing squad by wishing that they all perform in blackface.
This is a pic from fresh hare is this the cartoon you were talking about? I don't remember them switching places. or maybe I just haven't seen this one I'm not sure.
No, jrobin. What I meant to say was Hare Brush ("My name is Elmer J. Fudd. Millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht"). The titles are similar, so it's easy to see how one could get the titles mixed up.
In Fresh Hare's concluding scene, (after Canadian Mounty, Elmer Fudd apprehended Bugs), Elmer asked Bugs "What is your last wish"? Bugs answered back with "I wish I was in Dixie". After this the cartoon concluded with "I Wish I Was In Dixie's music. 63x927is58401.
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"I Will Type To You, Later" & "BCDB's Math_Maestro"
(This post was edited by 63x927is58401 on Feb 3, 2005, 8:41 PM)
No, jrobin. What I meant to say was Hare Brush ("My name is Elmer J. Fudd. Millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht"). The titles are similar, so it's easy to see how one could get the titles mixed up.
It wasn't Fresh Hare that Space Demon was referring to in his original post, it was Hare Brush. Fresh Hare had nothing to do with the subject of this thread; Bugs didn't lose at all in it. My fault, really: this afternoon, Space Demon asked me for the title of the short in which Elmer is a millionaire who thinks he's a rabbit and finally outwits Bugs, and I told him it was Fresh Hare.
Just as Achilles had his heel and Superman has his kryptonite, Bugs has his turtle. Or should I say, "toitle"? The turtle is also a reminder that all these "talking animal" cartoons are rooted way down in Aesop's Fables, and if Aesop says tortoises beat hares, so be it.
D'ya notice Chuck Jones never did a rabbit vs turtle cartoon? In Jones' later Bugs cartoons, Bugs is completely unflappable and a bit smug & superior, to contrast with Daffy's neurotic hysteria and Elmer's dimness. I had a thought once about a storyline, or rather, the beginning of a story: It's starts very much like Jones' 'Rabbit Season/Duck Season' cartoons.... Daffy, smarmy and unctuous, stands outside Bug's hole and calls for him, "Oh Bugsy Pal!" Bugs emerges (on his elevator), very civil, nonchalant and jaded, his eyes heavy-lidded. "Here we go again" he seems to be thinking. Daffy says "I was just traipsing through yonder wood when I met an old friend of yours." The camera pans over to show Elmer standing closeby. "Him?" Bugs asks, unimpressed. "NO, HIM!" Daffy yells as he shoves Elmer aside, revealing... Cecil Turtle, quietly filing his nails. Instantly Bugs' cool facade drops...He's shocked, chagrined, angry! "Toitle!" Bugs gasps. "Hellllooooo, rrrrabbit," Cecil drawls, and Daffy & Elmer look on with "we've got him at last" grins.....
Now my problem is that I could never come up with a satisfactory middle or end for this little episode...Somehow Bugs would have to triumph over Daffy & Elmer yet still lose (in some way) to the turtle....You see why I could never do this for a living.
P.S. Bugs three big flaws or vices are: 1. Girls (or "dames") 2. Carrots, and 3. HIS VANITY!
P.S. Bugs three big flaws or vices are: 1. Girls (or "dames") 2. Carrots, and 3. HIS VANITY!
Nice observation.
However, I wouldn't say that his vanity is one of his biggest flaws. Bugs has a kind of zen-buddhist attitude towards life in that nothing bothers him because he has managed to eliminate most desire from him (aside from, like you said, girls and carrots). Yes, Bugs can be cocky, but only because he knows how it's going to turn out. Bob Clampett claimed it was because he read the script beforehand. But, Bugs has another secret weapon (besides the endless supply of dynamite and other assorted weapons. What cartoon character DOESN'T have that?). He can size up an opponent and spot the weakness instantly. That's why Bugs can be so calm in the face of adversity all the time. Example: in Hurdy Gurdy Hare (by Robert McKimson c. 1950) when the gorilla first threatens Bugs the words out of his mouth are "Hmmmmm, obviously a bar-bell boy". In Bully For Bugs (by Chuck Jones c. 1953), Bugs quickly notices that his opponent does nothing more than run and butt at top speed. Therefore, every one of Bugs' traps for the bull involve him charging at full speed and paying for it (anvil, boards, and later a rifle behind the cloth, culminating in one long Rube Goldberg trap at the end). Analyse any other Bugs cartoon to see what I mean.
Daffy is more a victim of his vanity in both incarnations of his persona. From Daffy Duck and Egghead (by Tex Avery c. 1938) "Aint I some cutie? I think I'll do it again!" to Daffy Duck for President (by Chuck Jones c. 2001?) "I'll just get my self elected to congress...." Daffy's had a huge ego about himself.
That's really the fundamental difference between Bugs and Daffy. They are both equal yet opposite entities.
No, jrobin. What I meant to say was Hare Brush ("My name is Elmer J. Fudd. Millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht"). The titles are similar, so it's easy to see how one could get the titles mixed up.
damfine sez "I wouldn't say that his vanity is his biggest flaws. Bugs has a kind of zen-buddhist attitude towards life in that nothing bothers him because he has managed to eliminate most desire from him..."
Well, maybe vanity isn't quite the word for Bugs' vice, maybe it's pride. I'm thinking of films like the three Cecil Turtles, and What's Cooking Doc? (the one where Bugs is sooooooo sure he's going to win the Oscar) and Rebel Rabbit (Bugs is so outraged by the $.02 bounty on rabbits, that he turns outlaw, ruins the USA, and ends up with a $ 1 million bounty on his head....and 1 million was a lot of money back in 1949!) "I'm Bugs Bunny King of the Beasts!" Of course he ends up in Alcatraz...
Bugs vanity/pride is very different than Daffy's; Daffy is all neurotic & greedy & self-deceiving & hysteric. But Bugs has a very powerful sense of self-worth, and that's good, but occasionally, bad. I like heroes with a few flaws, and I hope Bugs hasn't read every script in advance.
The first installment of this series was Tex avery's Tortise Beats Hare(1941). This was of course quite an early Bugs cartoon the second in fact directed by the man who is now widely recognised for Directing the first cartoon staring a fully formed Bugs(a wild Hare 1940). From the title and characters (not to mention a popular Disney cartoon at the time) one would take for granted that this cartoon is a telling of Asop's "the Tortise and the Hare". However, in fact the central gag of the film (one Avery would use sucessfully again and again throughout his career) where Cecil wins the race by employing his relatives to play him along different points throughout the course actually comes from an "Uncle Remis" story entitled "Mister Rabbit Finally Meets his match" or "The Rabbit and the Terrapin."
One of the most similar characters to Bugs Bunny in early literature is in fact "Uncle Remis'" Brer Rabbit. A fun loving, sometimes vein, and even brash character but one who outside of being neighborly, minds his own buisness and looks out for him self. A born winner, though almost always the underdog. Against any foe no matter how powerful Brer Rabbit was successful through use of wit and a cool clever intelect. Brer Rabbit too never lost untill he met one underdoggier than he. Brer Terrapin.
Coming upon him in the road one day Brer Rabbit began to chat and some how it came up that Brer Terrapin felt he was more swift of foot so a wager was placed for fifty dollars and a bottle of brandy (and that's more than ten bucks!) The night before the race Brer Terrapin sent his wife and three children out to take their places at each marker along the race course, and as every one knows only a Terrapin could tell one of his own from another.
Well you see where this is going and so for the first time Brer Rabbit was defeated.
So what have we learned, and how is this a valueable addition to this post?
Bugs, like his predesessor Brer Rabbit, can lose when his fight is for pride rather than self defense or the defense of another.(moral: never get a swelled head, it interferes with the thought process.) But luckily for these two the world of cartoon justice(wich apparently extends even before animation) will not allow them to lose to one who can actually harm their body, only their pride. This will always hold true unless of course they were out to harm that someone's body.
To add a couple of final points imagine if you will the Roadrunner deciding instead of bird seed to catch himself a worm as an afternoon snack, would he simply spot one and gobble it up or would he himself meet with oposition that would suddenly force him to feel just a bit of compassion for his would be predator Wile E. Coyote??
the greatest example of this sort of phenenomenun is among the resiidents of McKimson's Barnyard, you have the archtype winners and losers among Daffy, Bugs, Tweety, Sylvester etc. but the interactions of Foghorn Leghorn and co. remind us that a cartoon character's successes and failures depend on their own intentions toward their opponents as much as they do on their own abillities.
Bugs Bunny Needs To Defeat Cecil Turtle!
[In reply to]
To explain the origination, of this subject, Bugs has lost to Yosemite Sam, in "Captain Hareblower" but has zero wins & three losses, to "Cecil Turtle" 0 & 3. Bugs has teamed with Daffy in "Rabbit Fire" (versus Elmer Fudd) & teamed with Elmer Fudd in "What's Up, Doc?" & teamed up with Yosemite Sam in "Rabbit, Every Monday". 63x927is58401.
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"I Will Type To You, Later" & "BCDB's Math_Maestro"
Bugs Bunny Needs To Defeat Cecil Turtle!
Bugs Bunny and the Three bears 
Falling Hare 
I've seen most of them but I don't remember Hold the lion please 
Captain hareblower 
